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Just hear that college's were going to congress to ask that the drinking age be lowered from 21 to 18 years old. Now I realize that a lot of privlages are granted to 18 year olds, and more responsability is thrust upon them. Some get Jobs, start families vote and serve on juries. Some go on to Protect our country from forign and domestic enimies.Others go to college to get better jobs or persue careers that help others ( fire, police and medical).But in my openion and not my departments, lowering the drinking age is wrong. It does not teach the younger generation to deal with problems without the use of alcohol and taking responability for ones owns actions.We as responders will be going to more accident, more fights ( law enforcement ), and more drunk drivers on our highways. With age comes knowledge and responsability but i do not think it would be wise to lower the age and for colleges to request this makes me wounder about them and what there thinking. The age was 18 at one time and failed, what makes them think it will be diffrent now. I know keeping the age at 21 will not stop underage drinking, But it does help save lives of everyone involved. I think the colleges are wrong in doing this and the age should remain 21. And yes i do have teens myself.

I have an entirely different view on this subject matter.........

How can we send our 18 year old sons and daughters to risk their lives on the front lines of war - yet tell them they are not old enough to drink?  We allow them the right to vote at 18, yet can't sit down in a restraunt and have a glass of wine with dinner?  Just my .02 cents, for what it's worth.

I deffinetly agree that the drinking age should not be lowered.  If anything it should be raised a bit, even 21 year olds are still in need of more wisdom before they should be allowed to drink.

I will say however, I was born and raised in Jamaica. There is no drinking age down there, and the mindset of having alcohol is completely different to teenages down there. There are no problems, the kids don't look at it as a rebellian thing, and don't get drunk as much because it isn't a big deal down there.

That of course can never happen in America, only because, it would be new to kids and they would most likely run wild with it, thinking it is a huge thing.  

So deffinetly hope lowering the age never happens.  I have two kids, thank goodness my older is quite a few years away from even being a teenager.

ok here my 2 cents-----i'm a brit and the legal age in england is 18. there is still undersage drinking as there is with having a legal age of 21. yes there are drunk drivers but whatever you say or do there are always going to be idiots. i do agree however that if someone is old enough to die for their country they are old enough to have a drink. education is the key-----lets have it in the open and not make a big deal over it,plus just because they can drink doesn't mean every 18 year old is going to go out and get blind drunk all the time, most of them are not that stupid. underage drinking will always be a problem whatever the legal age just seems to me daft that you are considered an adult at 18 yet you cant enjoy all of the privaligrs of being 1

There are a couple of issues involving the drinking age.  As was pointed out (and often is) that if a person can vote, marry, sign contracts, join the military, have kids etc., then they should be able to drink.  To restrict the drinking age to 21 clearly says and recognizes that an 18-20 year old lacks the necessary judgement.  I'm not disagreeing with that point.  Studies suggest that the part of the brain that controls impulse behavior isn't fully developed until around the age of 24 or 25 years old.  if you look at the behavior of the 18-24 year olds you see a lot of impulsive behavior such as marrying, speeding, drug and alcohol experimentation and use, among other behaviors.

At 18 how clearly does one see the issue of patriotism and service to country?  After 9/11 many young people joined the service to defend the country against terrorism but did they fully understand the issues that were involved or were they just reacting impulsively to the fact the U.S. had been attacked?  Don't forget, I too was 18, joined the service, drove like an idiot and did a lot of things that were 'impulsive' without regard to consquences.  I'm here more out of stupid luck than from any amount of wisdom.  With age comes wisdom.

I think the primary reason the drinking was initially dropped to 18 was because of the fact that people were being drafted into the military and the opinion was if you're old enough to die for your country you're old enough to vote...and drink.  Not necessarily a bad argument.  So the options that remain are: Raise the age of majority to 21 for everything, including (if ever re-instituted), the draft.  Under the age of 21 would require parental consent for everything or, keep it at 18 including drinking.  No matter how much a parent tries, a child's peers are always going to be more influencial than the parents, but if the child is taught all along what's right and what is wrong odds are the child will end up being responsible and acting responsibly.

And if 18 is too young to drink then the assumption follows that 16 is too young to drive.  More kids (and people in general) are killed in automobile accidents than from drinking.  And yes, drunk driving IS an issue.  But the rate of accidents for 16-21 is unacceptably high yet driving is seen as a necessity of life.  Maybe, like provisional drivers licenses, there needs to be a provisional drinkers license which would limit the amount of alcohol purchased,  the type of alcohol allowed (wine and beer versus whiskey and rum)  and the allowable blood alcohol level based on age, with strictly enforced laws regarding giving or allowing underage drinking.  Perhaps if an 18-20 year old violated such rules and lost their drivers license as a result,  they would realize that the consquences far outweigh the act.  That's my $.02

And the federal government will reduce the amount of federal highway money by 10% to a state that lowers the drinking age.

kzov says ...

The reposnde of "If you can die for your country why cant you have a beer?" always amused me.

 

I have quite a few friends in the millitary, some of which are 18-20, some of which are 21-etc. I have not talked to, or met a single person, under 21 that serves in the millitary, who cant walk into any store and buy alcohol.

 

 

 

The fact that they can walk into a store and buy alcohol is not the point...............the point is whether it is legal or not.  I've been able to buy since I was 16 years old because of the the job I held at the time and the aquaintences that I had.  Did I do it.......yes; was it legal....no.

And for spoiled.........I understand where you are coming from...........I've been working EMS since I was knee high to a grasshopper.  My home state, and particularly my county within that state has the one of the highest DWI fatality rates in the nation.  I've run on more DWI fatalities than I care to remember........however...........NONE of them involved persons 18-21 years of age.  In fact, MOST of them involved adults over 30 years old (and alot had multiple DWI convictions already).  How many times do you seen headlines of "John Doe arrested for his 6th DWI".  I can tell you from experience that I know of people who have DWI's into the teens (14, 15, 16) and they are STILL driving.  The focus should be on holding those convicted of that first DWI accountable - ESPECIALLY if the their ignorance results in bodily injury or death.   

What doese it matter if its legal or not? Kids under 21 are still drinking, that cant be denied.

The issue here seems to be if they can buy alcohol under 21 if they're in the millitary, and the answer is yes. And by the time they get out of the millitary ( if they serve the full 4 years) then can also buy in civillian world.

k5kowboy says ...

kzov says ...

The reposnde of "If you can die for your country why cant you have a beer?" always amused me.

 

I have quite a few friends in the millitary, some of which are 18-20, some of which are 21-etc. I have not talked to, or met a single person, under 21 that serves in the millitary, who cant walk into any store and buy alcohol.

 

 

 

The fact that they can walk into a store and buy alcohol is not the point...............the point is whether it is legal or not.  I've been able to buy since I was 16 years old because of the the job I held at the time and the aquaintences that I had.  Did I do it.......yes; was it legal....no.

And for spoiled.........I understand where you are coming from...........I've been working EMS since I was knee high to a grasshopper.  My home state, and particularly my county within that state has the one of the highest DWI fatality rates in the nation.  I've run on more DWI fatalities than I care to remember........however...........NONE of them involved persons 18-21 years of age.  In fact, MOST of them involved adults over 30 years old (and alot had multiple DWI convictions already).  How many times do you seen headlines of "John Doe arrested for his 6th DWI".  I can tell you from experience that I know of people who have DWI's into the teens (14, 15, 16) and they are STILL driving.  The focus should be on holding those convicted of that first DWI accountable - ESPECIALLY if the their ignorance results in bodily injury or death.   

i just see it bein made even more readily available to even younger people for them to drink (those that are under 18) and the fact of having a much higher rate of calls that involve drinking. If i'm gonna drink, i do it just to enjoy the drink not get plastered and not remember any fun i might have had during that time. The point i'm making about alcohol is whats the point of gettin wasted? whats the point of havin some fun if your not gonna remember it and then the next mornin you feel like someone just whacked you over the head with a halligan tool and then opened up an attack line right at your head? I'm not sayin i'm against drinking its just that you gotta use your head while you still have it.

Ok time for my 2 cents worth i guess i see everyones point for lowering the age to 18 especially if they are in the military as i myself am a vet. But also you have to remember a few things some people mature differently. At 18 there are still alot of immature people even the ones that are going to war. At 20 years old i was stationed overseas in Korea and i went on what is called a thunder run. I probably consumed more booze that one night then i had ever drank. What ended up happening because i was not mature enough to have the nuts to stop when i should have. I blacked out.

When the haze started to clear i was sitting at the MP holding area covered from head to toe in blood waiting for my 1SG and my CO.  I had managed to get in a fight a hospitalized a fellow soldier and even worse he was a 1SG from another Battalion. But you have to remember when the age was set at 21 it what was thought to be fair at the time for a level of maturety. And quite honestly you hear more and more stories of the 16-20 year old kids now mixing booze or beer with pills. That does not sound like they have a level enough head to have the right to drink.

And before you say it i know for fact it happens in the military also as i helped a couple civilians back out of the army for doing such things.

Under age drinking isnt as big of a problem as drunk driving no matter what age group your talking about.  lower the drinking age and give harsher punishment for d.w.i's. At 18 you enter the real world as an adult you can die for you country, run into a burning house and save a life, and the goverment takes taxes from your hard earned dollar but they won't let you have a few beers at the end of a long hard day. 

Raven. I have to agree with. (my two cents)

The issue seems to be, mostly, even not the discussion here seems to be the millitary thing, so why bother disucussing other issues? Just make it legal for military to drink, and not civillians at any age.  You must be willing to die for your country before you can have a drink.

k5kowboy says ...

kzov says ...

What doese it matter if its legal or not? Kids under 21 are still drinking, that cant be denied.

The issue here seems to be if they can buy alcohol under 21 if they're in the millitary, and the answer is yes. And by the time they get out of the millitary ( if they serve the full 4 years) then can also buy in civillian world.

KZOV - I think you are missing the point entirely.  This has nothing to do with folks that are in the military.  Regardless of whether you are active duty or not..it is ILLEGAL to drink under the age of 21...on base or off base.  That whole "drink on base if your 18" went away 15 years ago.   

The point I'm making is at 18......one is considered old enough to make the decision to join the military and die for freedoms they are not old enough to enjoy!  How can we look at a 19 year old guy/girl and say thank you for serving our country......but you are too young to have a drink.

Can drinking stop the teenage brain from growing? 18-year-old Elisha Schuett says, “That wouldn’t surprise me at all if it affects your brain. I mean it’s a drug just like any other drug. It’s a drug.”

Duke University researchers scanned the brains of teens recovering from drinking problems. They found that the teens who drank a lot had a smaller prefrontal cortex than those who did not. 20-year-old Harry Schmidt says, “It’s really frightening. It makes me wish I hadn’t started drinking already, definitely.” 18-year-old Stephanie Sturges says, “The fact that our brains could stop developing is kinda scary.”

The prefrontal cortex is the part of the brain responsible for judgment—planning ahead---critical thinking. Dr. Michael Fishman, the director of the adult addiction medicine program at Ridgeview Institute in metro-Atlanta says, “If you have a prefrontal cortex that does not mature as it’s supposed to as an adolescent and young adult, it could possibly impede many different areas of our lives. We could become more impulsive, have poor decision-making, our judgment could be off, and we might not be able to learn as well as other people.”

And--- the research suggests--- the damage is permanent. Dr. Fishman says, “You only have so much time for the brain to mature, and the brain is not as forgiving of an organ as the liver that might regenerate after damage.”

He says parents should explain that the brain does not fully mature until age 25---and that binge drinking----even once a month---may cause damage. Dr. Fishman says, “This really isn’t even a scare tactic. It just is what it is, and it’s very, very damaging.”

18-year-old Elisha Schuett says, “If you start young it’s going to plague you the rest of your life.” 19-year-old Kim Filipek says, “I’ve been in college, this is my second year. I’ve gone to one party. I don’t (drink) and partially because I know the effects that it has and it’s just not worth it.”

Alcohol is the most commonly used drug among teens. Seventy-one percent of eighth graders and 95 percent of high school seniors say that it would be easy to get alcohol if they wanted some. Although many youngsters try alcohol (52 percent of eighth-graders and 80 percent of high school seniors), most don’t drink regularly and disapprove of heavy drinking.

Research shows that adolescents may be more vulnerable to brain damage from excessive drinking than older drinkers. Alcohol impairs brain activity in the receptors responsible for memory and learning, and young people who binge drink could be facing serious brain damage today and increased memory loss in years to come. If one begins drinking at an early age, he/she is more likely to face alcohol addiction. Consider the following …

• Imaging studies have revealed a connection between heavy drinking and physical brain damage.


• Neither chronic liver disease nor alcohol-induced dementia, the most common symptoms of severe alcoholism, need be present for alcohol-induced, physical brain damage to occur.


• Alcohol-induced brain damage usually includes extensive shrinkage in the cortex of the frontal lobe, which is the site of higher intellectual functions.


• Shrinkage has also been observed in deeper brain regions, including the cerebellum, which helps regulate coordination and balance, and brain structures associated with memory.


• Alcohol abstinence has shown positive results. Even three to four weeks without alcohol can reverse effects on memory loss and problem-solving skills.

I am very Impressed with the discusssion going on here.  I admire all of you for your stand on this issue.

I am sorry but research is not fact...it is research.  I would love to stop people who drive under the influence, but how many of us have been invoved as a Firefighter or EMT in an accident involving a DUI driver and he/she has had their license revoked a number of times and they still drive.  I wish tougher laws were the answer, but we don't inforce the ones on the books as is. 

At best the 21 year old drinking age law is a feel good law.  We feel good because we think it stops underage drinking.  As we have heard on here and as you know in real life, it doesn't.  The under age crowd just gives their money to someone who can purchase it for them.

To me...plain and simply it is a question of Rights. 

Ravenfirefighter says ...

I am very Impressed with the discusssion going on here.  I admire all of you for your stand on this issue.

I agree with you 100% Raven.  I was just thinking the same thing and was going make a comment about it myself. 

Anyway...I stand with Raven on this one.  I too, believe it is a matter of equal rights.  We allow our young adults (18-20) to volunteer to possibly pay the ultimate prices in defense of our constitution, allow them to vote to choose who is going to lead the greatest nation in the world, yet won't allow them the right to choose to have a beer.  Making choices is all apart of growing up and maturing...both good choices and bad ones.  Education is the key in this.  The choice has been made by most of them by that age - regardless of what the law says.   Hell, half the thrill before I hit the big 21 was just seeing if I could get away with getting in the bar, ordering a drink, and getting served.  Once I hit 21, that thrill was gone and my alcohol consumption decreased dramatically.  Our society is quick to hold someone responsible as an adult for crimes committed at 17, 16, or even younger because they were old enough to make the decision to committ the crimes, so we'll prosecute them as an adult (which I don't have a problem with either).  Where is that thought process with this issue?  And don't say it's different, because it's not.  We will try someone as an adult when they are 15 or 16 years old - but our young adults (18-20) don't get the right to choose.